Sunday, November 14, 2010

Zombie Game - Jacoooooooob

Righto guys it's time to get this blog a-rollin. That's right, I just said 'a-rollin'. Deal with it.

We have about 4 months to get our game concept/s all designed and purdy, so time to get started on the awesome idea making! I think it'd be good if any of you get bored that instead of running off to look at Youtube videos or porn (lookin at you Logan) that you'd come here and lay down a hard dose of creativity. The more ideas the better, so write em down even if they seem stupid : P

So anyway, I've talked to quite a few of you about my zombie shooter idea, but I thought it'd be good to get it all dished out on the blog.

The initial concept is pretty simple: a co-op, mulitplayer zombie shooter; entirely first-person. Thanks to Left4Dead we know how exploding an infinite supply of disgusting monsters with your friends can be awesome fun. Of course, this game would need to stand out from Left4Dead and other similar games.

The main way this game differs is that it's not about surviving a zombie apocalypse, it's about killing as many undead creatures as you can and wiping an area clean. Of course, surviving long enough to take them all out is the challenge. Zombies could easily overpower and nom on a single player with a single gun and dull tactics, so working together and using each other's skills is important.

The first feature of the game would be an open world; in my head I see a sort of decrepit city with crumbling skyscrapers and trashed shopping malls overgrown with plants. It wouldn't be too difficult to create a single, enormous level and I think we could make it really fun to explore. Player's could climb up tall buildings and look down from roofs, enter subway systems and sewers, we could possible even have some nice movement mechanics going on to making getting around more fun e.g. long jumps, wall jumps etc.

The second feature was the character selection. My proposition was for the game to include class selection mechanics. You start the game, choose a class (or two classes, if possible) and enter the game with your friends. Classes would include more typical options such as Sniper, Medic and
Soldier as well as more unique options such as Samurai, Trapmaster and Pilot. Each class would have unique abilities, weapon proficiencies and stats - such as speed, health, defense, stealth etc.

After working through this concept with Andey, we decided a better idea would be to have a set number of characters to choose from that came with default stats and the classes would act more like perks in a Fallout game. Basically, you have a set number of the classes you can choose from (most likely two) and each class gives your character several abilities as well as improvements to their stats and weapon handling abilities. For example: you choose the character John Asskick who is a basic soldier character with rounded stats. You then choose the Heavy class, which improves the characters stats and gives them better accuracy and more damage with heavy weapons. The second class is a Brute class which gives John a bunch more health and defense, improves his hand-to-hand combat, and lets him charge through hordes of zombies with a special move. This makes for a pretty decent tank character, absorbing damage and hitting hard. But the choice doesn't have to be so obvious, John could've taken the Samurai class as his first class, giving him great agility and furthering improving his hand-to-hand skills (you'd also get a kickass samurai sword, naturally). It all depends on the person playing. I think this kind of mechanic would make the game insanely fun in multiplayer games.

This kind of mechanic would also work well in development cos we'd only need a couple of player character models that wouldn't change depending on the class. We'd also be able to set player variables, such as speed, that would be universal over all the characters. The variables could easily be tweaked by the classes e.g. speed + 10.
They'd all basically be the same character just with different numbers in their variables.

We also thought a day/night cycle could be interesting, where after a set amount time the zombie's A.I. changes. For example, during the day the zombie's are pretty much dormant, hiding out in buildings and undercover areas. This allows player's to move around easily but makes it more difficult for them to find the zombies. This also sets the scene for more close-quarters battles in buildings where the zombies are hiding. As soon as night hits the gameplay changes completely with the zombies actively hunting down the players, moving out in the open and highly aware of their surroundings. This makes the zombies easier to find but leaves the player's constantly on guard, often needing to hide themselves.

In the end, the players would move around the world however they want; jumping from rooftops and smashing through windows. They'd be able to communicate through an open chat window and develop tactics. They'd each use their own unique skills to get through certain situations. One player can set a large explosive trap in the street while another player keeps watch over him with a sniper rifle from a nearby rooftop. When the trap is set another player uses their quick movement to lead the zombies into the trap without taking damage themselves.

The main appeal about the game, I think, is that it sets the stage for the players to make so much fun for themselves, much like games such as Team Fortress. Of course, this kind of game would take a lot of time to do well or to even get working at all. If we did decide on this idea we'd probably have to do the single game over the year, rather than the two games.

Anyway, throw feedback at me and start posting your own ideas, as many as you can! GO GO GO!

Love always,
Jacob xoxoxoxoxoxo

11 comments:

  1. The concept sounds pretty awesome, especially if we can get the Parkour working smoothly, and everything balanced correctly.

    A few things I want to bring up though...
    The problem with building a massive level is making sure there are no areas, or paths with no major benefits over the others, otherwise we could suffer the same issue that L4D1 had when it was being developed. The L4D team originally used massive maps with multiple varied paths through, however play-testers would end up just using the fastest path through the city and ignoring the rest. We could try to mitigate the problem by adding randomness to the level altering things like resource amounts, blocked paths, zombie hordes, etc.

    Classes in a multiplayer game is somewhat difficult to get right, balancing the classes correctly is very important, otherwise you could have massive stacking of a few classes, or even worse, people completely avoiding certain classes altogether.
    Urban Dead does classes in an interesting way, all the classes start with one ability and then they can work towards getting all the others, certain classes can get some abilities with less XP, and other abilities cost more XP, i.e. The Military classes can learn Military abilities for only 75XP, but Scientist abilities cost 150XP. In an unrelated note, you can start as a Fire Fighter in UD, but you still have terrible accuracy with melee weapons, the max Accuracy for a fire axe is 40%...against an unmoving zombie. I imagine that either every survivor in UD is half blind, or all the weapons are covered in oil and slip out of their hands half the time.

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  2. My brother has mentioned that this idea sounds like Killing Floor

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  3. First off, @ Tim: I hear what you're saying about the possible multiple paths problem, I say that this could be combated with collectible items that can be sought out by the player. Such as survivors/new weapons or ammunition if ammo is scarce in game/recordings from past survivors/etc. In saying this, if something like this were to be implemented i DON'T think it should be core to gameplay or a definite requirement in passing the game because some players may find this type of playing mundane, boring and unnecessary. But exploring and finding rewards would be more an added achievment to give the more adventurous, meticulous player a reward for their efforts of exploration.

    If possible to implement due to how we go for time, we could take the undead facet of the enemies and extend to not just having Zombies, but also Vampires, Werewolves, etc. These different enemies can have different attributes which could complement and balance out the different player character's attributes nicely.
    Also, using the Day/Night cycle, Vampires and Werewolves could only come out at night and we could have some other 'Just Day' creatures.

    Cheers,
    Dylan

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  4. Oh PS. Sounds like it could be a really wicked game :D

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  5. Wow, there's been tonnes of useful feedback since I left : O

    Ok Tim, you raise a good point about quicker paths, but you seem to be missing the main point of the game: you're not trying to escape the city, you're there willingly. You have to survive while taking out all the zombies, or at least most of them, over a couple of days. We would have to make facing the zombies a very difficult task so players would need to make good use of team work, patience and tactics rather than just blitzing everything with an assault rifle : P

    But yeah, the players will have to deal with most areas of the level in order to complete the main goal. I think your collectible items idea is still a really good one Dylan : ). In-game recordings especially seem cool; such an easy way to make it seem like there's a complex storyline lol. Love it.

    The class point is super valid and I think it'd be the main issue. I've never really understood how designers get balancing right, I'm guessing a lllloooot of tweaking. I'm confident we could get it pretty balanced though, but that's another reason why this is a whole year game, not half a year.

    That class system is interesting, though I think there's something more intrinsically enjoyable with distinctive classes. People like saying 'I'm a sniper'....well I do anyway lol. This system kind of lacks that, it might be harder to get players to feel unique. We'd have to really go over it all and prototype the class system to get a good idea what's best I think.

    People have mentioned Killing Floor before but I don't see it as being too much the same. The teamwork aspect is there, but Killing Floor is a very fast-paced, barely-survive-pushed-against-a-corner type game whereas I'm seeing this more as an exploration-like game you take at your own pace. The players prepare themselves and enter into the hectic fights willingly, rather than being rushed into them like Killing Floor. Still, I thinks there's a lot we could learn from Killing Floor if we do end up deciding on this concept.

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  6. OK, let me start by saying who is Andrew?
    it's not me...

    Note: ...This one goes to 11!

    Second; I think it would be cool for a medic to have telekinesis as a method of healing as well as setting up defences and barricades and shooting crap.

    Third; As much as like the sound of an open world game, I don't think it would work. Co-op games generally need to be completed in half an hour or so. We could have the game as a world and have sectioned off areas such as an office building or a shopping mall, or even a small city block (Geelong, Dandenong or Outer Melbourne city block, not CBD) which are connected by open world or something.

    Fourth; I just had an idea, Melbourne Central as a level!

    Fifth; Pilot!?

    Sixth; Back to the level layout idea, we could have the game as a large world and each area is marked such as gang territory in San Andreas or (a better example from a game it's less likely people have played) crime rates in True Crime; areas of high crime are red, areas of low crime, yellow. By solving crimes in an area, it becomes more yellow, however an unattended area will slowly fall back to red. if an area is completely cleared of crime it becomes green and never falls back.
    When an area is completely cleared of zombies, the players could gain an award or achievement. If a new game is started the game host can choose to begin with an area cleared if they have already earned the award for that area.

    Seventh; a good way to stop the players from simply clearing one area at a time could be to have different resources (or different resource loads) in different areas.

    Eighth; XP would be a good way to reward players for using team work; if a player kills a zombie, 25 points to all players, if a player kills a zombie that has been weakened by another player, 50 points, if a player lays a trap and another player lures 5 zombies into it by shooting them while being healed by another player, 375 points!

    Ninth; upgrade paths (if we decide to have experience) should focus on teamwork and class abilities eg;
    Heavy:
    Health Boost +10: 100 XP
    Heavy Weapon Accuracy +10: 50 XP
    Defensive Aura +10: 25 XP

    Tenth; Dylan (although unintentionally) brings up an excellent point with Vampires and Werewolves, stereotypes suck, they can be useful but at the end of the day we will probably have a better game if we can avoid vampires, werewolves and even zombies. Stereotypical ones anyway. The thing I do like about zombies in this game is that it breaks the stereotype. I don't think, in the history of zombies, they have ever been hunted. Personally I would prefer not to have zombies but I think they work here.

    Eleventh; As Jacob said, having dedicated class systems is probably the most effective way of achieving team work, next to limiting resources (citation:TF2 Heavy/Medic & Engie/Pyro teams, Alien swarm, L4D for limiting resources) Still I think we need to make zombies powerful and aggressive when provoked to stop long range classes becoming over powered.

    :D

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  7. More awesome feedback ; )

    Wait, Andrew isn't you? How is he there? : s

    Anyway, I'm taking your numbered approach Andeymon, much easier to read lol.

    Ok 1: Love the medic idea, if we've learnt anything from Borderlands is that crazy, telepathic classes are fun :D

    2: I agree wholeheartedly. I've been thinking over the open world and it just seems too difficult to manage. A more closed environment that seemed more realistic would probably be better. Fallout is a good example because despite all it's awesomeness, having such an open world really ruins the experience sometimes. You end up leaving huge spaces boring and void of detail. Don't want that.

    3: MC for the win! Though we'd have to avoid making the game seem too much like Dead Rising; probably be better over a couple of buildings, streets and alleyways.

    4: Yes pilot! Just an idea but if we got time I don't think it would be terribly hard to try our hand at vehicles : P. That would've been more useful in an open world though, probably won't hold much chop in a smaller environment. Unless you can get in a robot suit : O. But yeah, probably won't get time for that : P.

    5: I'm not sure if I like the varying threat level idea. I find games that do that very frustrating, like you have to manage things. Killing a bunch of zombies only to have the crime level rise to 'red' again would just annoy me. I think it would be better to make the zombies very difficult to kill, but once they're gone they're gone. That would be much easier to code, much more satisfying for the player and would integrate better with the whole 'work together to take them down' idea.

    6: Gaining awards for clearing an area = genius. It's a great motivator ( as I know all too well from Starcraft : P ) and if we could find a way to keep track of awards it would be an easy way to get save games going. Like with your example Andey, the game would be playable over different sessions which would add sooo much.

    7. I think I like the idea of player's clearing out areas one by one. I mean, they don't have to but they could. If we really wanted to mix things up we could have some parts of certain areas locked till others areas are clear, or maybe just put huge boss monsters in certain parts to force the player's to consider their other options.
    8: Experience would be awesome! But we'd have to work the gameplay around a lot to fit with it. Experience would imply either an annoying-to-implement, cross-game character levelling system (I mean, even Borderlands didn't do it perfectly) or a rather long game, which isn't out of the question. I think we could market the game toward the hardcore gamers anyway, the type who already spend all night on a COD game. Still, we'd have to spend a lot of time tweaking the amount of XP you get so level-ups happen fast enough.
    Altogether though I like the upgrading system you've got there : )

    9: I have to agree, probably try to avoid the stereotypes. But yeah, that was the intention, I think the twist really adds a lot of depth : ) I think we can learn a lot from L4D in this vein though. L4D is a typical zombie shooter, but it doesn't seem stale thanks to the awesome zombie design. The boomers and tanks and witches are all unique. So my plan is: make sure we make a bunch of different zombies that all do different things. As many as we have time for, of course. We could even have vampire or werewolf-like zombies, like zombies that hang upside down from inside buildings during the day and hunt you down and bite you at night : P.

    10: Finally, I found this: http://ping.fm/
    It's an awesome service that updates a variety of things simultaneously. We can set it up to update facebook and blogger at the same time, even twitter and myspace if anyone actually has either of those : P. That way, it's easier to keep updated with posts.

    ~ Jacob out! ~

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  8. More awesome feedback ; )

    Wait, Andrew isn't you? How is he there? : s

    Anyway, I'm taking your numbered approach Andeymon, much easier to read lol.

    Ok 1: Love the medic idea, if we've learnt anything from Borderlands is that crazy, telepathic classes are fun :D

    2: I agree wholeheartedly. I've been thinking over the open world and it just seems too difficult to manage. A more closed environment that seemed more realistic would probably be better. Fallout is a good example because despite all it's awesomeness, having such an open world really ruins the experience sometimes. You end up leaving huge spaces boring and void of detail. Don't want that.

    3: MC for the win! Though we'd have to avoid making the game seem too much like Dead Rising; probably be better over a couple of buildings, streets and alleyways.

    4: Yes pilot! Just an idea but if we got time I don't think it would be terribly hard to try our hand at vehicles : P. That would've been more useful in an open world though, probably won't hold much chop in a smaller environment. Unless you can get in a robot suit : O. But yeah, probably won't get time for that : P.

    5: I'm not sure if I like the varying threat level idea. I find games that do that very frustrating, like you have to manage things. Killing a bunch of zombies only to have the crime level rise to 'red' again would just annoy me. I think it would be better to make the zombies very difficult to kill, but once they're gone they're gone. That would be much easier to code, much more satisfying for the player and would integrate better with the whole 'work together to take them down' idea.

    6: Gaining awards for clearing an area = genius. It's a great motivator ( as I know all too well from Starcraft : P ) and if we could find a way to keep track of awards it would be an easy way to get save games going. Like with your example Andey, the game would be playable over different sessions which would add sooo much.

    7. I think I like the idea of player's clearing out areas one by one. I mean, they don't have to but they could. If we really wanted to mix things up we could have some parts of certain areas locked till others areas are clear, or maybe just put huge boss monsters in certain parts to force the player's to consider their other options.
    8: Experience would be awesome! But we'd have to work the gameplay around a lot to fit with it. Experience would imply either an annoying-to-implement, cross-game character levelling system (I mean, even Borderlands didn't do it perfectly) or a rather long game, which isn't out of the question. I think we could market the game toward the hardcore gamers anyway, the type who already spend all night on a COD game. Still, we'd have to spend a lot of time tweaking the amount of XP you get so level-ups happen fast enough.
    Altogether though I like the upgrading system you've got there : )

    9: I have to agree, probably try to avoid the stereotypes. But yeah, that was the intention, I think the twist really adds a lot of depth : ) I think we can learn a lot from L4D in this vein though. L4D is a typical zombie shooter, but it doesn't seem stale thanks to the awesome zombie design. The boomers and tanks and witches are all unique. So my plan is: make sure we make a bunch of different zombies that all do different things. As many as we have time for, of course. We could even have vampire or werewolf-like zombies, like zombies that hang upside down from inside buildings during the day and hunt you down and bite you at night : P.

    10: Finally, I found this: http://ping.fm/
    It's an awesome service that updates a variety of things simultaneously. We can set it up to update facebook and blogger at the same time, even twitter and myspace if anyone actually has either of those : P. That way, it's easier to keep updated with posts.

    ~ Jacob out! ~

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  9. I'm going to have a look at some zombie population ideas, layouts, algorithms, etc. over the next 2 weeks to try some things out.

    An addition to the varying populations’ idea: Survivor activity in an area could increase the zombie activity in that area because the zombies are attracted by the survivors.
    Another idea is that sectors that have been cleared could have zombies slowly 'leak' into them from neighbouring sectors if they have a high enough rating. e.g. A cleared sector next to a red sector could have some zombies move into it.
    If we have a limit on the total number of zombies in the world, then the 'leaking zombies' could have the advantage of making some areas easier by causing the zombies to spread out across multiple sectors and lowering the population density of an area. e.g. zombies 'leak' from a red area into a neighbouring cleared area reduces the number and density of zombies in the red area making it easier to clear.
    We might want to avoid a levelling system since it will add major balancing concerns, we can probably explain the lack of a level system by the fact that the group entering the ‘zone’ are doing so of their own will, therefore they are most likely very experienced with their abilities, therefore they are not really going to improve much, if at all, during their time in the ‘zone’.
    No levelling system means we only need to balance against the experience level of the players instead of their class level, i.e. around the ‘drop zone’ the zombies are easy to take down, even solo, and as you move towards further areas, the zombies are stronger and smarter and requiring teamwork to take out large groups.

    I think we need a better system then this for planning this game out, the current system just doesn't feel right. I'm going to look at collab solutions.

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  10. The idea of such complicated zombie A.I. is a bit daunting, I can see that taking up a lot of our time. If you can get it to work, that'd be great, but we don't want to get ourselves in too deep. The A.I. necessary to get the zombies to move around the areas, attack, hide during the day, fall into traps and all that will be pretty difficult I think. Having them decide which area to be in seems a bit unnecessary; cool but unnecessary. Just giving them certain areas to be in during the day and certain areas at night will probably work well.

    We can set certain areas as 'red' which means they're densely populated by enemies, but I don't think we should worry about getting the areas to change in difficulty. I think it'd be really difficult to have zombies move to other areas without losing our control over the difficulty. I think a lot of games get caught up in makings things realistic and random where games like Half-Life, in which the designers take complete control of where the enemies are, the pickups are etc, always win out.

    So yeah, I don't think that's something we should focus on at the moment. I think the main focus, at least to start, should be basic A.I. Getting them to shuffle around, attack players, bump into each other, hang around big boss monsters, be attracted to traps; all that stuff is really important.

    Survivors would probably work best in a Dead Rising sort of way. Find the survivor, maybe talk to them a bit (probably good not to pause the game when they talk) and then lead them back to a base of some sort whilst fending off zombies. Having survivors would mean there'd need to be additional rewards for saving them, which is hard when we don't have experience.

    I agree with the no experience though, I think it would make things a bit too complicated. You're right, no experience means less balancing which I like a lot : P. It could work like any other shooter, the only thing that changes is player experience and understanding together with better weapons. And yeah, that's how I originally saw the concept, a bunch of professionals bursting in and kicking zombie ass : D

    I agree, blogger is good for posting pictures and stuff, but the amount of talking we do would be much better in maybe a forum or something. Anyone know how to set up a good forum?

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